Engaging, Understanding and Acting to Build a Better Corporate Culture

Procter & Gamble CEO David Taylor is a leader in Catalyst’s MARC initiative and a champion for P&G employees. He and I talked recently about empowering those closest to the work and not just central leadership. We also spoke about collaborating with experts to advance D&I and embracing the “third way” to establish a better, collective way forward. What follows is the transcript of our conversation.

Lorraine: David, thank you for joining me for this interview. Let’s jump right in and talk about how your management style has changed in the last few months? I mean, you're enabling innovation from people to just innovate on the fly, really rapidly. What is different in the leadership style that you need in managing in this crisis or even chaos in some ways?

David: I think what it does is it amplifies what you do, good and bad. And so, to the extent you believe, and frankly I really do believe, and our leadership team believes, in empowering people closest to the work versus central control. A couple of years ago, we moved to a new organization structure. We put more of the decision space in the 10 operating businesses, put more of the decision space in our emerging markets. Instead of central control, you've empowered and entrusted people and given them the skills and the capability with this support. What's happened now is that's gone even further because the speed at which you need to move in cases like this is faster. What I've always believed and what has come out so strongly through this is the quality of people that we have throughout the company, and frankly, broadly, I think all of us are going to learn, if we put more confidence and decisions in the hands of people, they rise to the occasion every time.

Lorraine: What do you think of the focus on racism that the George Floyd incident and these other incidents has done? Is it changing how you look at equity in the organization? I mean, you're very committed to equity anyway, but I'm wondering what do you think of all this?

David: I really do believe there's a cultural awakening in the US. I think that the horrible incidents that we've seen graphically on TV have brought it to a point where it's inspired action. It's this belief, which I strongly believe in and I know you do, that equality raises all boats. When you take care of a marginalized community better, you often create a better situation for everybody because it's more open; it's listening.

If you can surround yourself with people that are very different, men, women, Black, white, people of color from all over the world, then you have access to their diverse experiences and skills. And if you truly are listening, not waiting to speak, but listening to what they say, then you walk down their ladder of inference when they disagree with you, and instead of arguing to win you say, "Let me understand why." And you find out they access facts that you didn't know or experiences you couldn't possibly have had, and then you have the benefit of that.

We talk about getting to a better third way. It's not my way or your way. It's a better third way that benefits from your insight and my insight, and you come out with better decisions. So, my job is not about being right, it's to make sure the right thing gets done. If I can benefit from your insight and other people's insights, then think about the quality of decisions I make, and it's benefited not because of me, it's because I surround myself with really amazing people.

Lorraine: Well, that's very consistent with our philosophy, of course, and what we do at Catalyst. Do you think that this moment in time is going to be important within P&G, but also for corporate America? I think at a time when we have a lot of divisiveness in our political climate that corporations are trusted. What do you think it's going to do both within your organization and more broadly for corporations around the world?

David: I think the answer is yes. My hope is a yes. My belief is a yes. I believe, as I said, I think there's a cultural awakening that's not a few. It's many. I think you're seeing company after company, leader after leader step up, put out statements. My belief is, and I'm on a learning journey with other executives on this, is that not being racist is not enough. Working on your bias is not enough. It's taking action. We just ran a film last night called The Choice. The idea is, be part of the solution versus I’m just trying to do a little bit better and I won’t do something bad, do something good. The reason we’re running these films is to promote dialogue. Dialogue leads to understanding. Understanding leads to empathy, and together we can take action.

We have a voice, use it in a constructive way. We have influence, we have resources, money, people, use them in positive ways. That is supporting organizations like Catalyst and others. That is having some of our executives on loan to other organizations that can help. That is running films. That is demanding more from our suppliers. That's demanding more from our advertising, in front of the camera and behind the camera. We want to see the broad tapestry of society, all people fairly represented.

It's demanding. If you look at every area, our employees, our suppliers, the communities in which we operate, and all of a sudden it opens up just a wonderful world of opportunities that we'll have to be thoughtful and ‘choice-ful’ about. But I believe, yes, I think we're going to see the corporate world and more broadly the business community say, "We are going to be part of the solution."

Lorraine: Well, you know, this is why, within Catalyst, I feel that we have a platform for being incredibly impactful because we can champion the cause, and not only within the people we have as employees, but as you've said, Procter & Gamble influences millions of people around the world. I mean, our community influences every person on the globe many times over, and we can have an influence on that.

Let’s talk about your commitment to Catalyst and MARC. MARC really is about understanding unconscious bias and moving it to allyship and action. In fact, just yesterday, we came out with research that was supported by the work and money P&G gave us around interrupting sexism, and the fact that a culture of silence, which is in many organizations, makes it difficult for people to step up.

The research says that over 80% of men want to make a difference, but only 30% actually will do something because there's a culture of silence that they feel there's repercussions if they do that, that are not going to be positive for them. So, maybe you could talk a little bit about why you're committed to MARC, how you're doing it within P&G, and how it's made a difference to you.

David: I think first, just for the reason you said, when you take time to learn and listen, and you create an environment, an experiential session, whether online or in person where you learn, then it does open people's eyes. When that happens, when people understand their biases and they have discussions, then to me what happens is it advances the dialogue.

If we can give people tools to constructively learn how to do it and the confidence and the support to say, not only is it okay, it's expected. Our job is to make a difference. If you are party to something that marginalizes a woman, marginalizes an African American, marginalizes a gay person, then you're part of the problem. That is a big step, frankly, for our society, because generally it's been, “I'm not doing wrong, so I'm good.” To really make progress, you have to go beyond not doing bad, but to confront and to ideally help in a constructive way, people to do better.

We've now had a significant portion of our people go through MARC training. What happens is everyone say it was helpful. It's for improving a culture. When a culture gets better, all people benefit. Then there's a vicarious positive that comes from this from other people, because what they see is behavior that is now more constructive and positive. It's one of the reasons I believe our results are getting better.

Lorraine: Well, you're doing a fantastic job. David, I appreciate you taking the time to chat with me, this has been a fantastic interview. Anything you want to end on?

David: Again, I think Catalyst is part of the solution preparing the business community and helping us learn to the extent we're all in a learning mode, not a knowing mode. Many people, when they develop strategies, say we need to deploy the strategy and tell people what we're doing. I say, "We don't want to deploy anything.” What I want to do is engage and enroll. Engage is where we listen. Let people share their ideas, make it better, enroll them in what our vision is. And if they have some ideas, let's elevate them into this integrative thinking where we get to the better third way.

Our hope is that we will come out of this a stronger culture and a stronger company in service to the consumers we serve and the other stakeholders that we do impact.

This interview was condensed and edited for clarity.