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Linus Explains Linux Trademark Issues
from the two-ounces-of-clarification dept.
The following was written by Linus Torvalds and posted to kernel-dev
I've been getting tons of email about the trademark thing due
to the
action of stopping the auctioning off of linux-related names, so instead
of just answering individually (which was how I started out), I'll
just
send out a more generic email. And hope that slashdot etc pick it up
so
that enough people will be reassured or at least understand the issues.
And hey, you may not end up agreeing with me, but with the transmeta
announcement tomorrow I won't have much time to argue about it until
next
week ;)
Basically, the rules are fairly simple, and there really are just a
few
simple basic issues involved:
- I (and obviously a lot of other people) do not want to have
"Linux" as
a name associated with unacceptable (or borderline) behaviour,
and it's
important that "Linux" doesn't get a name of being associated
with
scams, cybersquatting, etc etc. I'd personally hate that,
for rather
obvious reasons. I _like_ being proud of Linux, and what
has been
achieved. I'd rather not have to apologize for it..
- Trademark law requires that the trademark owner police the use
of the
trademark (unlike, for example, copyright law, where the
copyright
owner is the copyright owner, always is, and always will
be unless he
willingly relinquishes ownership, and even THEN he ends
up having
rights).
This is nasty, because it means, for example, that a trademark
owner
has to be shown as caring about even small infringements,
because
otherwise the really bad guys can use as their defense
that "hey, we
may have misused it, but look at those other cases that
they didn't go
after, they obviously don't care.."
- Even with things that aren't scams or something like that, VALID
uses
of "Linux" may be bad if they mean that other valid uses
of "Linux" are
blocked.
Those are the kind of ground rules, I think everybody can pretty much
agree with them..
What the above leads to is
- I'm required to ask people to acknowledge the trademark. When
you use
the term "Linux" in official marketing literature etc,
you should
acknowledge it as a trademark owned by me. Not because
I love seeing my
name in print, but simply because of the "policing" issue
(#2) above.
(And no, that does NOT mean that you have to add that to
normal,
everyday use of the term. Common sense rules the day,
think of the
situations where you see the silly "xxxx is a trademark
of yyyy", and
realize that yyyy may not really care except the legal
issues force
them to ;)
- _Intent_ matters. It matters a lot.
If your intent is to use the word "linux" as part of a
real Linux
project, that doesn't mean that you automatically absolutely
have to
get permission from me. That's the LAST thing I want.
I want "Linux" to
be as free as possible as a term, and the real reason
for having a
trademark in the first place was to _protect_ it rather
than use it as
some kind of legalistic enforcement thing.
But, for example, if your intent is to register "mylinux.com"
(made up
example, I don't know if it is registered or not) only
in the hopes of
selling the domain name for mucho dinero later, then that
kind of
intent is not something I (or anybody else, I think) would
find really
acceptable, because now the use of "linux" in this case
has really been
a question of blocking somebody ELSE from using the term
and using it
to get money.
This is where the cybersquatting laws come in, for example,
allowing
the use of a trademark as a way to make sure that such
squatting
activity does NOT happen.
- Being "specific" is _good_. Being specific largely avoids the
problem
of many people/organizations wanting the same name. We
had an example
long ago of somebody who would have wanted to register
"Linux Expert"
as a servicemark, yet obviously that is a pretty generic
term. Not
good, if it means that there will be confusion about who
owns the term.
In contrast (to give some tangible examples), something
like "VA Linux"
or "Red Hat Linux" oviously isn't a generic term: it's
a very
_targeted_ term for something very specific. Those kinds
of names do
not detract from other peoples ability to call _their_
Linux company
something else.
- Finally, you have to judge the "officialdom" and the importance
of
the business side of your usage. Not because I or anybody
else
really cares all that much, but more because of the "pain
factor" if
the name is asked for by somebody else.
Basically, ask yourself the question: "What if somebody
else had a
project, and happened to chose the same name for his project
as I have
for mine, how strong a protection do I want for MY version
of the
project?"
Also, ask yourself: "Would anybody ever have reason to
question the
name, and do I need to make provisions for protecting
this particular
instance of it" (and note that "anybody" may not be me
as the trademark
owner myself, but it may be a competitor who wants to
make life
uncomfortable for you)
If you decide that you want some official protection from
the mark,
that probably means that you want to own your own version
of the
trademark, ie a "service mark" or a "combination mark".
There are
obvious cases where such a thing is wanted - you should
not be
surprised to hear that various Linux companies own their
own
combination marks, or have at the very least gotten that
ownership
verbally approved by me pending getting the paperwork
done.
So basically, in case the trademark issue comes up, you should make
your
own judgement. If you read and understood the above, you know pretty
much
what my motivation is - I hate the paperwork, and I think all of this
is
frankly a waste of my time, but I need to do it so that in the future
I
don't end up being in a position I like even less.
And I'm _not_ out to screw anybody. In order to cover the costs of
paperwork and the costs of just _tracking_ the trademark issues (and
to
really make it a legally binding contract in the first place), if you
end
up going the whole nine yards and think you need your own trademark
protection, there is a rather nominal fee(*) associated with combination
mark paperwork etc. That money actually goes to the Linux International
trademark fund, so it's not me scalping people if anybody really thought
that that might be the case ;)
I hope people understand what happened, and why it happened, and why
it
really hasn't changed anything that we had to assert the trademark
issue
publically for the first time this week. And I hope people feel
more
comfortable about it.
And finally - I hope that people who decide due to this that what they
really want is trademark protection for their own Linux trademark,
that
they could just wait a week or two, or contact maddog at Linux
International rather than me. We're finally getting the shroud of secrecy
lifted from transmeta (hey, we'll have a real web-site and zdtv is
supposed to webcast the announcement tomorrow), and I'd rather worry
about
trademarks _next_ week.
Ok?
Linus
(*) "Nominal fee". What an ugly sentence. It's one of those things that
implies that if you have to ask, you can't afford it. In reality, it's
more a thing where both intent and the size of the project will make
a
difference - and quite frankly it's also a way to slightly discourage
people who aren't really serious about it in the first place.
Thank You (TM) (Score:4)
* - "Thank You" is a trade mark of the "Thank You Company [uspto.gov]"
I agree. (Score:3)
kwsNI
Couldn't agree more; some additional thoughts (Score:3)
1) In general, I agree with Linus' statements.
2) It's unfortunate that protecting one's trademark inevitably forces (per current law) the trademark holder to go to great lengths (read: expense) to protect the trademark. Personally, I can't see why the owner of a registered trademark shouldn't be allowed to selectively decide who may or may not use the trademark for their own pursuits. To force the owner to treat everyone equally seems kind of odd IMHO.
3) As a small (hopefully not for long) business owner myself, I've just filed a few trademark applications and I must say, the process isn't so bad, but it's prohibitively expensive, especially the issue of trademark searches. As a free bonus, let me mention a site I found where you can do free searches of the US trademark and service mark databases - an INVALUABLE utility for those without deep pockets interested in this sort of thing: Marksonline [marksonline.com]
At least Linus explained the situation! (Score:4)
Basically the reason behind their actions was the same as Linus' - to protect their trademark, they had to take action against any possible infringment of their copyright/trademark.
In the end, Universal Press Syndicate stopped pursuing fan sites for a number of reasons that one can only speculate - but I have always suspected that one of them was that there was no way that they could close sites faster than they were appearing.
Having read Linus' explanation, I have two observations:
Speaking of trademarks and linux... (Score:3)
Unfortunately, he's right (Score:5)
Say I make a product called OMIR's Covert Coke, "the drink for infiltrating and subverting large software companies." It becomes a modest success on campus. Microsoft's legal team thinks it's funny so they don't do anything about it. Coca-Cola's lawyers say we're too small to worry about so they don't bother us either.
Now somebody like R. J. Reynolds makes a cola they call "Coke-A-Rama." Coca-Cola doesn't like their name being associated with a cigarette company, so they try to issue an injunction against RJR making and selling the product under that name. RJR's lawyers can argue to invalidate the trademark on the grounds that, since Coca-Cola knew about OMIR's Covert Coke and didn't do anything about it, they relinquished the rights to the "Coke" trademark. And they would have a very good chance of winning.
Considering how much money Coca-Cola makes off of selling T-shirts, refrigerator magnets, windbreakers and the like with their "Coke" trademark on them, they aren't going to let this happen. It means a lot of money to them.
This leads to things like companies writing in to magazines to inform them that "we enjoyed your article on why photocopiers should be banned, but we wanted to remind you that the word 'Xerox' is a trademark for our particular brand of photocopier and should not be used as a generic synonym for the verb 'to photocopy.'"
Linus is in the same position. In order to defend the Linux trademark, he has to "crack the whip," so to speak. My wife used to have to do this for a company she worked for. It's annoying and time-consuming, but if Linus ever lost the trademark and with it his ability to veto uses of it, he would be sorry he hadn't (probably every time he heard it used for something he wished it wasn't).
--
Re:Interesting, informative. (Score:3)
Are you kidding? If Linux ever decided to post personally on Slashdot (comments as opposed to this article posted by proxy) he could probably do nothing but troll all day long, and
1. Have his automatic +1 bonus within a couple of hours, surpassing Signal 11 by the end of the day; and
2. Prevent any other people from getting marked up; and
3. Probably even prevent trolls from getting marked down, with the exception of trolls responding to him
Chris
Reassuring, but (Score:4)
Speak for yourself. No trademark is beloved as far as I'm concerned, and I think this says something about the community. People are starting to care a whole lot more about names and labels, and I think it is a shame.
Do you think the Gnu people would be doing the same thing? I notice that www.perlprogrammer.com is also 'squatted'. I don't hear Larry Wall getting the lawyers in. Or O'Reilly, for that matter. Gee, maybe Perl will get a really bad name - oh, but then with no Perl IPO's, that won't be hurting any back pockets too much, will it....
Sure, I can sympathise with Linus feeling miffed at a bunch of yobs, but that doesn't mean we should all cheer and wave flags. Linus happens to be able to call in the lawyers. Most people who make free software what it is can't do that and never have been able to. That hasn't really hurt free software much. If Linus wants to get legal so that he feels better, I think that's fine, if he can afford it.
But if he starts claiming that he's doing it for the good of the community*, I'm not going to be happy, because I'm part of that community and it does me no good. And if other people start claiming that he's doing it for the good of the communtiy, I'll get really pissed off. Especially if those people own shares in Linux companies.
For me, it's a community of people, and to a lesser extend a community of software. When it starts to be a community of 'OS friendly companies' or 'Trademark owners' or 'Approved cool people as voted by the
I've got more hobbies and interests than programming and computers. If people want to make it all about trademarks and IPO's and what have you I'll spend more time sailing and cooking, and less time writing free software. No big deal. Either that or I'll go back to the world of Windows shareware, which is a whole lot less bitchy and is starting to produce better software.
*I'm not suggesting that he is, BTW.
Re:Linus Cannot "Censor" (Score:3)
disagrees with you:
censor (snsr)
n.
1.A person authorized to examine books, films, or other material and to remove or suppress what is considered morally, politically, or otherwise objectionable.
2.An official, as in the armed forces, who examines personal mail and official dispatches to remove information considered secret or a risk to security.
3.One that condemns or censures.
4.One of two officials in ancient Rome responsible for taking the public census andsupervising public behavior and morals.
5.Psychology. The agent in the unconscious that is responsible for censorship.
---
The obvious one I am asserting here is #1.
There is no mention of WHO "Authorizes" a person.
USUALLY it is used in terms of a "Government"
action.
It should be noted that even in common usage,
employees of Television broadcasting stations
who decide what content has to be edited from
movies (which I find ruins the whole movie and
is the reason I refuse to watch movies on TV)
are called "Censors".
However, your statment that it can only be applied
to government action (as if the government is the
only sickening band of authoritarians around) is
a common assertation.
I'm confused, what about NASDAQ ticker symbols? (Score:4)
I'm confused. If Linus believes this, I don't know why he let VA Linux choose 'LNUX' as their NASDAQ ticker symbol. They should have chosen perhaps 'VALX', and not be too general. After all, aren't NASDAQ symbols just like domain names?
In my opinion, Red Hat did the right thing with 'RHAT'
Question about www.linux.com (Score:3)
Wasn't there like this dispute over www.linux.com. That Fred van Kempen (was it him, some Dutch guy?) eventually sold this domain for a lot of money. Shouldn't Linus have been policing there, as he explains if he did not do it in that case about what other domain could he possibly complain??
confused...
Down boy, Down! (Score:4)
As Linux goes from a hobby to Business (which it already has) you do need to be concerned about names and labels. If corporations were able to start abusing the Linux trademark then those that do Linux as a hobby may have more trouble. Say if you are serious about a hobby and want to do your own web site, but it was squatted!
Do you think the Gnu people would be doing the same thing?
Well I can't speek for the FSF, but I do think they would if you started abusing the GNU label. RMS still thinks it should be called GNU/Linux. Talk about being concerned about labels. I did like the mention of calling it Linux/GNU so it doesn't sound like Linux is part of GNU.
As for Mr. Wall, well, he's a nut anyway (in a good way!
Most people who make free software what it is can't do that and never have been able to. That hasn't really hurt free software much.
Like I said above, as free software becomes more business like, it will hurt!
But if he starts claiming that he's doing it for the good of the community*, I'm not going to be happy, because I'm part of that community and it does me no good. And if other people start claiming that he's doing it for the good of the communtiy, I'll get really pissed off. Especially if those people own shares in Linux companies.
Well, maybe not the good of the community, but for the good of Linux itself. Linux was started by Linus, and he still wants control of it, in all aspects. I don't blame him. Disclaimer: I don't really own Linux stock, but I do own Andover (So I guess I own Slashdot!).
I've got more hobbies and interests than programming and computers. If people want to make it all about trademarks and IPO's and what have you I'll spend more time sailing and cooking, and less time writing free software. No big deal. Either that or I'll go back to the world of Windows shareware, which is a whole lot less bitchy and is starting to produce better software.
Well don't pay attention to what others do. I write code because I like to. It's not just a hobby to me, I like to get more involved. I also have several other hobbies, but this is one that challenges me intellectually. I don't think the "slash dot mob" will leave out someone that is doing something that they believe in.
Steven Rostedt
intellectual property (Score:3)
Intent is important to the law, and to judges who really frown on people pretending to have intent. As an example, you can't sue someone just to test and see whether a law is valid. You must actually have "standing" to sue, as an entity who has actually been affected by a law. For trademarks, much of the purpose and the design of the remedies is to prevent economic harm. If Linus is giving the name away widely, where's the harm in other people using the name? What are the damages?
Trademarks can be legally lost, as he points out, by failure to police them. But for more reasons too, for failure to use them in actual trade, for failure to use them a way that gives them a distinct meaning, etc. I'd recommend that he come up with a meaning, something like "it's for free and open source, and that's ironclad" if that works legally, and I'd recommend that he not say, "I'm only doing this because I have to, I'd really rather give it away" because he might. IANAL, of course.
I wish the FSF and other interested parties would come up with GPL equivalents for other kinds of IP: