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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
This has been only open for five days and has run into problems due to copyright questions around the images. I'm boldly closing this now to avoid a mess, and we can discuss image options in a new section below. Thank-you. Cremastra (talk·contribs) 14:40, 1 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The preceding RfC has been closed with consensus to change the infobox image. Which of the above images is preferred?
Given there are five options here instead of a "yes/no" question, please consider leaving a ranking in your comment, e.g., see mine below, to help with consensus and compromise. Cremastra (talk·contribs) 16:25, 26 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
D = C > A2 > B > A1 is my preference; the 2015 picture and the 2011 picture are both highly recognizable, just in different ways. I have no particular preference as to whether our portrait should be formal (2011) or more casual (2015). Option A is of lower quality, although it's still pretty recognizable, and I think it's a good compromise. Option B is too dark to really be very good. Cremastra (talk·contribs) 16:25, 26 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely D, as this was used previously. The 1986 image A is a possibility, but it is ruled out at the moment because it is only 580 × 775 pixels, which isn't good enough for a Featured Article, and it lacks good quality colour, contrast etc. This could only be considered with a new upload of much better resolution and quality.--♦IanMacM♦(talk to me)16:39, 26 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
A2 > B > D > C is my preferred options. I'd prefer something from the middle of her reign as a touchstone and to keep it in line with the photo on the Prince Philip article (given they're synonymous with each other). A1 though is too dark and washed out in my opinion. Rambling Rambler (talk) 17:26, 26 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for my snappy comment, but I will note that this RfC starts with the sentence The preceding RfC has been closed with consensus to change the infobox image.Cremastra (talk·contribs) 18:51, 26 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with DrKay's comments and hatting below. Cremastra's comments are highly inappropriate and Abo Yemen should feel free to unstrike their post if that's what they would prefer to do. DeCausa (talk) 20:11, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see anything inappropriate about asking to strike comments which threaten to derail the discussion. This one was nothing more than an accident, but deliberately WP:POINTY comments which ignore our existing consensus are not helpful to this RfC. Certainly, consensus can change, but the last RfC was extremely recent and not everything should be taken as an opportunity to disruptively re-litigate past discussions. We have to get things done sooner or later. Cremastra (talk·contribs) 20:25, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Whether "we get things done" or not is for the closer of this RfC, not you. You don't get to say what opinions are allowed to be expressed here. If either of thos comments were WP:POINTY or not, the closer can decide. They should fully capable of taking a view of that without your assistance. From my perspective, neither of those editors posted to the previous RfC. They're nor badgering or bludgeoning - just expressing a perfectly legistimate opinion that they had not previously expressed. The only badgering and bludgeoning I see is your response to them. I suggest you back off if anyone were to express similar views. DeCausa (talk) 20:45, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The user voluntarily crossed off their comment, and this is disruptive to both parties who all ready agree, so I fear you not need to add anything more. No one asked for you to say such things; it could have ended with Abo Yemen's comment 5 days ago without your added two-sense. Rexophile (talk) 20:48, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No one asked you to post that. You don't get to say where I add my "two-sense". (Is that a joke or you just don't know what that means?) DeCausa (talk) 20:53, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
True, and just to add I don't think DrKay marking a similar circumstance with the same replies as "irrelevant" and "undue" in a special box, especially when the user all ways targets me somehow, is also acceptable here. It would have been so much simpler for him to address it via talk pages and not make more of the episode. :) Rexophile (talk) 20:42, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It was appropriate for DrKay to do that here so that your and Cremastra's inappopriate comments did not have a chilling effect on others. DeCausa (talk) 20:49, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You say DrKay "all ways targets me somehow". No, I'm not. If it appears that way to you, then I think you are coming to the attention of administrators rather more often than you should do. DrKay (talk) 21:50, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
D>C>B>A2>A1 Is how I would rank them. A1 and A2 aren't as high quality as the rest and D is the most recognisable to people and the most recent out of D C and B. GothicGolem29 (talk) 12:11, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
… basically every !vote in the last RfC also gave their preference for the image, ik it’s a thankless task but Toadspike how come consensus wasn’t assessed for that? A new RfC asking a question everyone’s already answered seems unnecessarily bureaucratic Kowal2701 (talk) 18:45, 26 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As I adressed before, it's not bureaucratic, it's prudence. Past RfCs that tried to change the image and pick a new one in one go turned into uncloseable messes. We have time to do this slowly and properly. Cremastra (talk·contribs) 18:50, 26 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I get she’s a very important lady but two big RfCs for whats ultimately an aesthetic choice seems like a waste of community time Kowal2701 (talk) 19:04, 26 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm currently on mobile, but when I read through earlier my impression was that preferences for alternative options were divided/messy enough that it would have been hard to see consensus there. I can take another look later though. Toadspike[Talk]19:58, 26 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I've skimmed through the discussion again. There seems to have been significant, almost equal support for both 2015 and 1986, though quite a few editors did not name a preference, especially those !voting "No". So, I don't think it would have been appropriate to read a consensus in favor of a particular image out of that RfC. Toadspike[Talk]21:00, 26 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
These are some of the clearest and most suitable images which have also been discussed in the past. You are welcome to suggest more images, but if we present ourselves with hundreds of options we'll end up with thousands of opinions and no consensus will be able to develop. Cremastra (talk·contribs) 15:22, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Already I think it's becoming clear it's between D and A2 in terms of preference already. Might need to go to a Round Three if it's too close to call just between those two. Rambling Rambler (talk) 15:23, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately you've found the issue that with a ranked ballot, it becomes highly messy if there are two very popular choices and then a smattering of options that don't get much attention.
You may have to either go for a straight shoot-out between the two or get yourself an online single transferable vote aid and run it off like that. Rambling Rambler (talk) 15:40, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
A2 > C > D > B Nothing in our policies states that we have to go with the most recent image of a public figure and there are countless examples that prove it. The option that is closest to the current image and also shows her at the middle of her reign is A2. Keivan.fTalk10:08, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The argument that a photo of her at 85 is the best choice because she is "recognizable" strikes me as silly. Nearly all the biographies of Elizabeth we have cited in this article have a photo from the 1950s in the cover–and the biographies themselves were published in 2000s. Evidently the authors and their publishers do not worry that their audience might not recognize Elizabeth. Here is another good photo from the 1950s which we can consider. Surtsicna (talk) 11:38, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Your argument that she is not recognizable does not hold. It's not a lizard in the picture. It's obviously Elizabeth. And no, the usage in reliable sources is never irrelevant. The guideline you cite, MOS:LEADIMAGE, says that the ideal lead image is "the type of image used for similar purposes in high-quality reference works". In this case, high-quality reference works use 1950s images. Surtsicna (talk) 22:12, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If we cannot follow the published biographies of Elizabeth by having a 1950s photograph, then we should go with A. It is a photo from the middle of her reign, matching the lead photo of Philip. It looks very regal. She faces the text, which is supposedly important. Precisely because most of us remember her as an old woman, it is informative to show her at an age when she was not, and inform is what we should do. Surtsicna (talk) 11:59, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
A1 or A2. There's an element of recentism in choosing the other photos. They represent an image of her that lasted a relatively short time. With the earlier images (including the current one in the Infobox, which I would have preferred to keep) although she, of course, only looked exactly like that for an equally short time, they were "on the record" and around as images for much much longer than the more recent ones. For me that gives them greater validity, recognisability, even currency, than the later ones. Plus a mid-reign photo feels appropriate. DeCausa (talk) 12:29, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
D > B. I personally think that the best course of action is to find a balance of a picture that is both the most pleasing & also fairly represents how most people remember the person for the majority of her or his life. Hammelsmith (talk) 22:42, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
A2 > A1 > C > B > D. I think an image from the middle of her reign would be the fairest reflection of her long tenure; 1986 is also the closest to her annus horribilis, perhaps the most important year of her reign to Elizabeth as a person. MarijnFlorence (talk) 14:10, 28 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
A2 > C > D > B Given that she was a queen, a royal attire is more fitting for her main picture, A1 is too unsaturated so I would rule that out.castorbailey (talk) 19:15, 28 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
D is clear and away the highest-quality image here. A is old and small, B has her face in shadow, and C is blurry. D is recent, well-lit, and in sharp focus. I have no opinion on the editorial choice of what regalia/time period best represents the biography, only the photograph quality. Dan Leonard (talk • contribs)22:40, 29 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment that the copyright status of images A1, A2 and C is dubious. These photos were taken for Government House in New Zealand. The current license for C is clear that it is Crown Copyright. When these images were uploaded, however, the website had a blanket CC-BY license. It appears this was a mistake on the part of the website administrators, and in fact the New Zealand Government considers themselves to still own copyright of these images, and that they are not freely licensed. Images A1 and A2 are cropped from a photo of a portrait hanging in government house, and while that image may have been licensed CC-BY, the copyright status of the portrait is still unclear. It is also worth mentioning that the New Zealand Government have fairly strict rules, defined in secondary legislation, that restrict how images of the monarch may be used. This means it is unlikely they will grant a CC release for these images. I am still in the process of following this up with the NZ Government. David Palmer//cloventt(talk)22:51, 29 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, sorry, C. Further, I have actually just double-checked and have nominated C to be deleted from Commons. A1/A2 may follow. David Palmer//cloventt(talk)23:21, 29 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Have you spoken to anyone about the copyright status or are you waiting for a written or email reply? When does Crown copyright expire? 1986 is nearly 40 years ago. Is there likely to be some sort of CC licence by default due to the frequent use of that 1986 image, possibly involving the "mistaken" confirmation of a CC licence. My guess is that reversing a CC licence isn't as straightforward as saying 'sorry people, ignore what we first said', especially when the error was made by the Crown, which will be held to a very high standard of accuracy and given very little leeway when it makes mistakes. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 23:56, 29 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm waiting for a reply from the government, but I have spoken to one of the photographers, and from that I was convinced there was never the intention to release it under an open license.
Regarding the reversal of a CC license, yes, that is the one thing in our favour here. It was definitely present on the website with an apparent CC license at the time it was uploaded to Commons. However, it is legally dubious whether an image licensed due to an oversight was ever really licensed at all. However, we can see in the archive of the website that image C was originally put on the website with a clear "no commercial use" license, which disappeared when the website was redesigned a few years later, and then reappeared again in the last few years. So it seems like an obvious accident that it ever looked like it had an open license.
I guess the litmus test is, what are the chances the government would send in their lawyers to have the image removed from Commons? From speaking to the photographer, they frequently do send in their lawyers to deal with people who are using an image of the monarch in a way they do not approve of.
I guess the litmus test is, what are the chances the government would send in their lawyers to have the image removed from Commons? nope, the litmus test is "is it free?"
Commons is a repository of free images, and does not accept things the license holder is unlikely to "send in their lawyers" over. If Commons or Wikipedia assures readers an image is free just because we have tacit approval for encyclopedic use, it does a disservice to those who then think they are free to take the image and reuse it for purposes the government does not like.
The government is also highly unlikely to accept the argument that a webmaster's oversight outside of their statutory authority can waive its legal rights here. Dan Leonard (talk • contribs)00:32, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you, but you perhaps missed my point. What I meant was, it is currently a bit ambiguous whether the image is freely licensed, but we could make a good argument that it was when it was added to Commons. However, they could also make an argument (with lawyers) that it wasn't.
I'm not sure what the usual approach to dealing with this is on Commons, but I think we should err on the side of caution and remove it. David Palmer//cloventt(talk)00:37, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I understand and know we are in agreement, I was just providing some Commons-specific context for others who might come here with the Wikipedia NFCC in mind. The specific policy is commons:Commons:Project scope/Precautionary principle, which favors deletion here (invalid argument 1 is most relevant, and invalid argument 5 is relevant to Roger 8 Roger's opinion above). Dan Leonard (talk • contribs)00:42, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Also, to answer Roger 8 Roger's question, Crown Copyright expires 100 years after the end of the calendar year in which the work was made. David Palmer//cloventt(talk)03:00, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've read through this and these replies above, and I want to give my two-sense into the matter. If the images were released under one of Commons' acceptable licenses at the time of the upload, it can stay. CC licenses are not revokable; the copyright holder can release it under a different license or cease distribution under a certain license at any time, but anyone who accessed the material before that can redistribute it under the same, previous license. Rexophile (talk) 01:33, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The CC licenses are irrevocable. This means that once you receive material under a CC license, you will always have the right to use it under those license terms, even if the licensor changes his or her mind and stops distributing under the CC license terms. Of course, you may choose to respect the licensor’s wishes and stop using the work.
The irrevocability of licenses is irrlevant if the work was never actually released by its owner. Note that the original upload of the 2011 photograph claimed that it was owned by the royal family, not the NZ Government acting on behalf of the Crown. An NZ Government website cannot change the rights held by others. Furthermore, an employee of the government acting outside their statutory authority (in this case a webmaster) often cannot actually change material facts about the government's legal rights (here copyright). Dan Leonard (talk • contribs)02:00, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The human error in mistaking the ownership by the Royal Family to the Government of New Zealand does not eliminate the CC license. The images were taken by commission for the New Zealand Government, meaning they own the copyright. I doubt the webmaster would make a mistake in the copyright statement, seeing that it was the same for so long before being modified to separate licenses. Read the facta supra. Rexophile (talk) 02:08, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Then there is some sort of copyright dispute at hand. I wouldn't be so quick to want to delete the images, as the above source may be wrong or somewhat misleading. I would suggest inquiring about the copyright itself to the Government. Rexophile (talk) 02:16, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You do not need to have that tone with me. I think you need to stop WP:BLUDGEONING so you can get the WP:LASTWORD, and it is really uncivil. To your delight, I have all ready reviewed the arguments which you so kindly linked again, which I have posted a response to above. I think you just need to drop the stick, and any further comments you wish to make in that churlish gist can be made on my talk page. Rexophile (talk) 02:34, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Rexophile, I think that's a touch of overreaction. I don't think Dan Leonard meant anything nasty by his comment, nor do I see any hostile tone – but written messages can notoriously be read in multiple ways leading to different tones of "voice". I wouldn't consider Dan Leonard's contributions to the discussion bludgeoning activity, either. I suggest you (Rexophile) step back from the discussion for a moment. There's no need for the discussion to get heated. Cremastra (talk·contribs) 02:44, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If the image was licensed accidentally, due to a mistake by the website administrator, then the license was never valid in the first place. At least, I certainly think it would not hold up in court in New Zealand, if it came to that. As Mr Leonard pointed out, we should be cautious.
We will need to wait for the government response before judging whether it can stay on Commons. But, given there is pretty solid reasons to think this was mistakenly licensed, it should probably be removed out of an abundance of caution. David Palmer//cloventt(talk)02:54, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
C>A2=A1>D>B I really like A2 and C, but the issue with A2 is the quality of a photo so old (even though in the original RfC I liked A2 the most) The only thing wrong, I think, with C is that it resonates with more of her status as Queen of New Zealand. In B, her face is barely illuminated. Just remember that MOS:LEADIMAGE states that the lead image is what readers would expect to be in a high quality reference work, and also that ideally the image should face the text. B and D not only do not meet that standard but also are, in my opinion, not what you'd expect for the lead image as Queen. Her mother, father, sister, and relatives and former kings and queens have formal portraits, and that is the norm. I don't see why using an image that both where she isn't looking at the camera and especially in B when her face is barely illuminated and in D where her face looks really washed out and not super natural, that we would use them. So I would suggest as my final to use C or A2.
D Good expression, great pop of color, her face is well lit. Very evocative of her. B has her face in shadow. A and C are up for deletion sooo might be moot on those, but A is somewhat lower quality, and she has a weird expression in C. CaptainEekEdits Ho Cap'n!⚓00:40, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. It is a formal, regal portrait. It's the kind of image one would expect to see as the lead image of the biography of a head of state. Indeed, all her predecessors have formal portraits. It also meets WP:LEADIMAGE better than any of the suggestions in this RfC: "the type of image used for similar purposes in high-quality reference works". All or nearly all published biographies cited in this article use 1950s photos as cover photos. Surtsicna (talk) 23:10, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Speaking as both an administrator and as an independent observer who has not hitherto commented in either RfC, I see nothing wrong with HAL333's comment. The response to it was undue and irrelevant. DrKay (talk) 07:40, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This is rude and disruptive, and adds nothing of substance to this RfC. I would ask you to strike this comment, as @Cremastra asked of someone else above who made the same comment as you. Rexophile (talk) 02:04, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Assume good faith and stop bludgeoning. No Wikipedia RfC policy forbids my sincere response, and the RfC here only asks the editor to "please consider" making a ranking. This kind of conduct will end up with you at ANI. ~ HAL33304:09, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That response is dramatic from you. There is no reason to say that. Your comment obviously was not constructive at all, and like I said does not add any substance to the RfC. The RfC creator asked nothing more than a ranking, not an opinionated comment that has no place in a civilized, consensus-based discussion. I will not comment further on this, but if you do I will understand entirely that you would only respond just to have the last word. You need to be a lot more wise in the future. Rexophile (talk) 06:17, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Given that three of the portraits put forward as options here have been nominated for deletion, I think it would be better to at least restart the RfC. Also, to keep things fair and objective the current portrait in use at the infobox should have been included as an option to see how many votes it garners. Entirely excluding it was not fair to begin with. Keivan.fTalk13:03, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
We should keep the current RFC going for now if those images get deleted then restart it potentially. The last RFC had a consensus to change the previous image so it doesn’t need to be included in any potentially new RFC. GothicGolem29 (talk) 14:00, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think we should wait for a response regarding copyright on the formal images. Has a request been made for a formal image to be released? Whatever, I also agree that the 1959 image should have been kept as an option, so a fresh RfC will have to happen. Despite countless photos of the queen, there are very few feely available in Commons. If anybody has the time - an option might be to find a wider CC photo that includes the queen and then crop it. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 19:51, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
B or D. The other three all have copyright problems, but I prefer B and D anyway. They're both high-quality photos showing the Queen in a form that readers are familiar with, and also smiling which I think is nice. Although she was clearly a dignified and formal woman, she also had a keen sense of humour and these images with colourful attire convey her image better than the more formal ones. — Amakuru (talk) 20:12, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - considering that 3 of the 5 options presented are heading towards deletion, this RfC has little value and should be remade from scratch, with pre-RfC discussion about which images should be included. In fact, such discussion should have already taken place before this RfC was launched, but it is a moot point now.--Staberinde (talk) 09:09, 1 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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We have existing consensus to change the lead image; however, the previous discussion on what the new image should be was scuppered by copyright concerns.
Should File:Queen Elizabeth II March 2015.jpg (right) be used as the lead image, or something else? If you have an alternate suggestion of a good-quality image without copyright concerns, please add it to the bulleted list below.
No. Per MOS:IMAGE, the current image is the best choice because it is "the type of image used for similar purposes in high-quality reference works"; all of the published biographies of Elizabeth cited in this article have on their covers a formal portrait of the queen from the 1950s. Furthermore, the Wikipedia articles about all of the preceding kings and queens feature formal portraits in the infobox: her parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. I do not see why Elizabeth alone should not have a formal portrait. We should have consistency. Surtsicna (talk) 19:40, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The consensus was: not the current image. We are looking for an alternative. So far, none has been offered other than the 2015 informal image, and I haven't seen a better option from trawling through Commons. Tony Holkham(Talk)19:57, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That previous discussion does not oblige us to replace the current formal portrait with whichever image. If there is no better alternative–a better formal portrait–we are under no obligation to change just for the sake of changing. And since that discussion, we have lost several alternatives to deletion, including two formal portraits. Surtsicna (talk) 20:34, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That's your choice. One of the issues here is that the approach on the original RfC was always going to be doomed to failure. It doesn't make sense to create a Brexit-type problem by just saying yes/no to the current position but leaving it undecided what no actually means. The current image should have been put up against the alternatives for a proper consensus to emerge. In any case I wasn't aware of the original RfC, didn't participlate in it and don't feel constrained by its outcome in expressing my inconvenient opinion. Sorry about that. DeCausa (talk) 21:14, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Great image. Let's just do this already. There's consensus to change from the previous RfC and this is a very nice choice. — Amakuru (talk) 20:22, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This one is available; though I have not looked into its copyright status yet. We were already forced to delete two other images of this sort. Keivan.fTalk20:30, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No - current image is perfectly fine and recognizable. Many biographies of her use similar formal portraits from earlier period of her reign. Probably the most notable aspect of her rule is major shrinking of British global empire, which happened relatively early in her reign. Also bad RfC, this is literally a third RfC in a row on this talk page without any WP:RFCBEFORE discussion, and it is quite ridiculous to present a RfC question with a single option A with suggestion that editors may add more options while RfC is already running.--Staberinde (talk) 20:31, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
current image is perfectly fine and recognizable Please don't make WP:POINTY comments. We're not here to relitigate past discussions.
literally a third RfC the second one was prematurely closed after five days because of copyright concerns. The first one was to determine whether there was consensus to change the lead image, and there is. This is a repeat of a second one after a WP:BOLD change.
@Staberindeand it is quite ridiculous to present a RfC question This is the foremost option for replacement, which is why most of the !votes so far are "yes" rather than proposing alts. It is not "quite ridiculous" to attempt to have a simple image change discussion, rather than the usual which is fourteen options that devolves into an uncloseable mess. Cremastra (talk·contribs) 20:36, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree; a neutral RfC would have put forward the current image in use in the infobox and a third option in the opening statement. And the nominator should stop WP:BLUDGEONING the discussion. Keivan.fTalk20:42, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
In the second of the three RfCs you opened on this topic, you were told by an uninvolved administrator not to shut people up for expressing an opinion that the current image is fine. I agree with the sentiment. Surtsicna (talk) 20:47, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This question has still not been asked properly. Go back to the beginning. It should be replace the 1959 photo ONLY IF a better one is available. Also, I suggest we look at photos in Commons that need to be cropped - there are dozens there to choose. [1] Here is just one, that has been cropped. (It isn't of good enough quality but just look for others). Also, see right under CC licence. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 21:58, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Go back to the beginning. It should be replace the 1959 photo ONLY IF a better one is available. Exactly. As I said above, the original RfC was fundamentally flawed because it created a yes/no on the current position without, Brexit-style, defining what the presumed "better" no means. DeCausa (talk) 07:17, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It is not a bad RFC the last one was closed prematurely so a new one is perfectly fine given how that ended and given we already have a consensus to replace the current image so need to find an alternative image. GothicGolem29 (talk) 09:46, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well, we obviously no longer have a consensus to replace the current image. This RfC shows it. That's the thing about starting three RfCs in two months. Surtsicna (talk) 13:39, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
A it’s quite soon to revisit that consensus B The RFC isn’t even over yet so it’s far to early to say that the consensus isn’t there anymore. What do you mean that’s the thing with having three RfCs?GothicGolem29 (talk) 14:49, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This very discussion is revisiting that consensus and, it appears, overturning it. And that's what happens when you hold three RfCs in two months. Surtsicna (talk) 15:16, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for The answer. Firstly this rfc was meant to be on which image to change too rather than revisiting the consensus. Secondly I would dispute that it appears to be overturning it A it’s far too early to say for sure and B there are a fair few votes voting for new images rather than trying to overturn the existing consensus so even from what we have seen so far I don’t think it would be appearing to overturn it. GothicGolem29 (talk) 16:51, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry to do this again, but I suspect that image B is not a freely licensed image. The website is fairly unambiguously licensed CC-BY, however I think the copyright will be owned by the Royal Household and the image will have been provided to the Queensland Government for their use. Based on previous investigations, these official portraits were commissioned by the Royal Household to be distributed to commonwealth governments for the Diamond Jubilee, but copyright was not transferred to those governments. If they do not own the copyright, they are not in a position to re-license it CC-BY. I have contacted the Queensland Government to clarify this. This is a nearly identical situation to what got the previous New Zealand Governor General images deleted from Commons. David Palmer//cloventt(talk)01:14, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer the current 1952 image. If it has to be changed (but does it, really?), the 1996 (Queen of NZ) photo is fine followed by the 2025 (HMS Ocean) photo. The 2012 (Diamond Jubilee) photo is completely unflattering. MmeMaigret (talk) 07:08, 22 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
level-4 vital article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Option B:
Option D:
The files in question should be OK to keep on Commons. The 2011 photo is OK as it was uploaded in 2018, when the copyright notice on the Government of New Zealand's website from a couple days prior is consistent with the license it was uploaded with at the time, and such license is consistent with the acceptable licenses of Commons (CC-BY-4.0). The 1986 portrait is also OK because this archived snapshot of the New Zealand Government's copyright, from the day after the the original upload of the linked file also pairs together, and is under the same license. Bear in mind that CC licenses are irrevocable:
The redirect Elizabeth of the United Kingdom has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 August 3 § Elizabeth of the United Kingdom until a consensus is reached. A1Cafel (talk) 08:50, 3 August 2025 (UTC)
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